Talk:MA8 Heavy Automatic Rifle
I was going for a M14 type of weapon. Yes it fires the 7.62mmx51mm round. yes it was origianlly a selective fire weapon. But also like the M14, the MA8 would be uncontrolable in automatic fire. The target that the typical soldier would be facing if they were issued a MA8, would be a Precursor, or something of that size. Whats the poimt of shooting a 7.62mm bullet, and having lots of ammo of that type, if the bullets just spark off its bony skin? So I thought, a Precursor, 45 feet tall, a bony outer shell- like a Xenomorph. In Halo 4, or in one of the Halo games, the final boss fight will be the Precursor. It would have to be hard to kill. It would harmed by some weapons, and untouched by all others. Like the fight against the Moniter, were only the spartanlaser and the rocket launcher can harm it. The MA8 would be like a DMR that shoots 400 grain 41 caliber bullet. And with a 20 round magazine. --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 23:12, August 17, 2012 (UTC) It is most like the WW2 M1 Grand, or the G34 Gewehr, or the SVT-40. All three fire rounds larger than the 7.62x51mm NATO round. (Though the SVT fires a 7.62x54mm round). The M1, the origanal battle rifle, a rifle that has been used in over 11 major conflicts. It fires a 7.62x63 round. One of the best rifles ever made. The G34 Gewehr, basicly a 8mm semiautomatic rifle. Fires a 7.92x57mm Mauser. Has a 10 round magazine.--Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 23:13, August 17, 2012 (UTC) This is a rough sketchof a MA8. https://www.fanfiction.net/imanager/image_manager_single.php?imageid=265587 --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 23:34, August 17, 2012 (UTC) Another thing. You know that the Precursor in Halo: Cryptum is a Flood Gravemind, right? You find that out in Halo: Primordium. You'll be fighting Forerunners in Halo 4, probably the Didact. And even if a Precursor's armor is bulletproof, unless it has some sort of forcefield around it, if you shoot it enough with any gun, it's eventually going to die. Bullets don't bounce off of things without causing damage, unless it's some sort of energy field. Bulletproof objects don't just deflect bullets and remain unharmed, but they absorb the bullet's kinetic energy (and get damaged in the process) in order slow the bullet enough so that it doesn't go all the way through and damage what's behind it. But if you shoot them enough, they're still going to break. The Precursors that I'm using are not flood-ized. You're right about that if you shoot something with any kind of gun long enough, you'll shoot through it. My dad said it once. "If you shoot at a plate of steel, with a BB gun, long enough, and you just keep on shooting at it, you'll eventually wear it down." So, if you shoot your MA5C long enough, at my charging, 45 foot tall, four armed, two and a half ton, Precursor, who is covered in natural armor that is similar to that of the Xenomorph, and eventually pierce its skin. And I'll take my chances with my purpose made, 41 caliber BMG automatic rifle. I meant that as a joke. Look up ".416 Barrett" This bullet has over 9,300 ft lbs of energy. compared to the 30-06 springfields of 2,900 ft lbs of energy. Concerning the 9mm. yes the 9mm pistol round does penetrate the relatavely thin skull carapace of the xenomorph at like less than 10 feet. And then it does a c**py job of it then. First of all, you don't use steel, or any other hard metal as a bullet, you'll strip the rifling out of the barrel. --User:Ny'Kle Vandan Again, kindly sign your comments with a signature. That said, solid brass rounds would not be effective as armour piercing ammunition: this is the point that's being made. Armour piercing rounds utilise steel or other dense metals in their penetrator cores. That aside, however, no creature would have a carapace capable of resisting ballistic impacts: this is an inherently silly notion. Even today, supradense ceramic plates must be manufactured in order to protect against rifle rounds. Fine. It will just be a .416 caliber BMG Automatic Rifle that is purpose made to combat the Precursors during the first Human, Sangheili/ Precursor War (2564-2616AD). FYI The 416BMG projectial weights 26g. My original idea was for a 50 round dual feeding drums. But after doing the math, just the weight of 10 magazines of fifty rounds of brass is over 50 pounds. --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 01:49, August 19, 2012 (UTC) ...Which is why nobody would ever carry 10 dual drum magazines. The entire point of big magazines is so that you don't have to reload as much or carry many magazines. Anyways, use a smaller friggin' round. Absolutely no species, not even the Precursors, would have skin capable of stopping 5.56 rounds, let alone 7.62 rounds. The weight of your weapon and the recoil generated by the .416 cartridge would make it virtually useless for the average soldier. A powerful gun is useless when you can't control the recoil or carry it for extended periods of time. A marine would rather use an MA5, even if the Precursors were as tough as you say. Several points that haven't been made, but probably should, though all are relatively minor fixes. The first is that stating a minimum range for a weapon designed to fire armor piercing rounds seems a little bit odd, but I'll let that one go for now. Second, a round designed to hit accurately at 2200 meters should probably have a longer range than 500 meters, though given the fact that it is a round designed for use on unarmored targets being used on armored targets, this is understandable. Finally, the weapon is too short to function with the stated barrel length. Even a comparable rifle (I'm using the MA5 for lack of a better option, if anyone else has one, please help me out), the MA5C, has 10.6 inches between the rear end of the barrel and the end of the weapon, giving it enough room to eject the round and safely load another round into the chamber without damaging any components. Your rifle, by contrast, has 8.4 inches with a round that is almost 2 inches longer, and generates almost 4 times the recoil force. Finally, just to illustrate the recoil issue, since you seem to have ignored it, imagine what it feels like to get hit in the shoulder with a baseball bat. Now, my baseball bat weighs about a pound and a half, and I can swing it at, let's say, just for the sake of the point, 100 miles per hour. That means I can hit with about 500 foot pounds of energy. Now, let's say that through various recoil absorbance mechanisms, you can shed 90% of the energy of firing. Since the muzzle energy must equal the recoil (might be off by a bit due to various factors, but just a bit) you've got 9300 foot pounds of energy driving backwards. This means that even if you shed 90% of the energy, each round hits your shoulder with almost the force of two baseball bats. No infantry ma can be expected to fire this weapon and remain standing, never mind accurate.--Supercavitation (talk) 06:59, August 19, 2012 (UTC) Yes the bullets that it fire are non armour-piercing, but the effective range is low because that is the farthest range that the bullet will pierce the very thin face skin/plate of the Precursor. And about the xenomorph skin, I figuered it like this: The skin of some thing the size of a Face-Hugger, is paper thin, and as strong as leather. The skin of a Warrior (about the size of a Elite), is as thick as cardboard, and will protect it against most blunt and bladed weapons. It will protect it against all fire arms, offering more protection at greater ranges. (5.56mm penetrates the cardboard thick skin well at less than 20 feet) the skin of a Queen (about the size of a british double decker bus) is several inches thick in some places, and almost inpenetratable from all man-portable fire arms. So... The skin of a 45 foot tall alien that made a weaker version of their own skin for the3 xenomorphs... what would beable to pierce the skin of that? Before the Precursor dons armour plating?--Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 19:20, August 19, 2012 (UTC) NO! Read it! The xeno the size of a King Crab has skin as tough as leather. The xeno the size of an Elite has skin that will stop .223 at farther than 20 feet. The xeno the size of a doubledecker bus has skin that is inpenetratable to all man portable non-Gauss weapons. ' The Precursor is BIGGER than a xeno Queen, and so has thicker skin. Thicker than inpenetratable to all man portable weapons.' This is what I want: I want a very large caliber semiautomatic rifle to kill 45 foot tall exoskeleton covered alien. The round is choosen for its size (since yall wouldnt let me use high velocity round; or or the normal FMJ 7.62x80mm round, all I have left that can possiblly work is this) tell me what I can and can not use. Please --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 20:28, August 19, 2012 (UTC) And about the size problems, if you people would give me a chance to update it, and correct the mistakes, I would. All I want to do is write on Fanfiction.com, and then go to halo fanon and write down all the ships weapons, and stuff that I use in my fanfiction, so any readers can look at the things and so I don't have to clog up the Fiction with stats on some ship or weapon that none but a few readers will ever look at. But... all I ever see when I power up is "see new changes to Talk MA8 " But no one ever has any thing good to say. Always "problem this" and "no way that". As I will put on my FanFiction "Please construtive criticism ONLY" --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 20:54, August 19, 2012 (UTC) Thank you. My nly thing is that it will remain a .416 caliber rifle. I am willing to change anything else. Nw Can you please make a list(#1 #2 #3...) of things that need to be changed or addressed. The precursors skin will deflect MA5s bullets. Period. Rockets. Period. Sniper Rifle bullets. Period. The Precursors will be shooting back at the shooter with 50mm assault rifles. As long as wee stay in side those terms, I'm OK. Now, What needs fixed?--Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 01:54, August 20, 2012 (UTC) As I understand it, the issues are as follows: 1. Using a bullpup weapon with dual drum magazines would be incredibly awkward. 2. Listing the damage as high (which is a problem in and of itself) while pointing out how useless the weapon is against Precursor armor? 3. Brass rounds would not be armor piercing, tungsten or steel rounds would be better. 4. A dual drum would hold more than 20 rounds. 5. Stating a minimum range for armor piercing rounds is strange, though this is a relatively minor fix. 6. Even shedding 98% of the recoil, you still limit the fire rate to 3 rounds per second, before you wind up in baseball bat to the shoulder a second territory (I may be wrong about the way recoil works, please correct me if I am). 7. The spelling and grammar are, for lack of a more polite yet equally descriptive term, awful. Did I miss anything? As a side note, why the .416 cartridge in particular?--Supercavitation (talk) 02:31, August 20, 2012 (UTC) OK I can live with a normal box magazine, though the idea with the DD magazines is that the 416 is nearly 5 inches long, and 20 of them will be a very long magazine. It is kinda dumb, as that if you shoot, and hit anything that is the size of a Hunter or smaller, it will either explode them, or make the target that is hit by the bullet explode (aka make them go away). Yeah, but you have to think about every thing else that is happening. At the time that the MA8 is being mass made, a fleet of 20 Precursor ships (Light Cruisers) has appeared near Earth. Each ship is over 40 km long. similar fleets have appeared above the UNSCs other main worlds, and also the Elites planets. Ten years ago, humanity finished the UNSC/Covenant war. Titanium, Tungsten, and even steel are in short supply. But yes, some kind of AP type round must be found. Yes a DD mag would have more than 20 rounds, but remember, each bullet (the brass) is 26g each. anymore than 20 would be excessivly heavy and would slow the soldier down. The mystical Forerunner Didact fixed the recoil, someway, somehow. (Though, don't the military have hard-core recoil reducers? Like were the guy gets a 50BMG, puts a un-tampered egg between the buttstock and his shoulder shoots, and the egg's uncracked?) And the MA5 fixes the recoil for the 7.62mm round. The US army uses 5.56mm rounds 'cause then anyone can shoot a gun and nt be scared of the recoil. Th4e brits, frenchs, and germans all use the 7.62mm (Though the brits are starting to turn to the 5.56mm(FAMAS). If the MA5C can fire full auto, and land 32 7.62mm rounds in a 5 foot spread at 100 feet; all without killing the shooter, the MA5C shoot over 15 rounds per second. Then why cannt I shooting only Three rounds per second? --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 03:30, August 20, 2012 (UTC) Did you hear me about the Precursor and the xenomorph skin? Also, thanks for bringing up ME, because you kinda have to understand a little thing to understand where I'm coming from. This may get a little out of Halo but bare with me, OK? --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 03:34, August 20, 2012 (UTC) First off, a 5 foot spread at 100 feet is ridiculously inaccurate for a rifle (a good marksman could probably do better with a pistol, should one need to). Think about it. This means that at 100 meters, the spread would be roughly 16.5 feet, and that out past 275 meters, the spread becomes larger than the creature that is being fired at. Second, there are many different materials that the UNSC would turn to before brass when attempting to create armor piercing rounds. Additionally, humans tend to be creative. It is far more likely that the UNSC would simply strip the steel, titanium, and tungsten out of wrecked buildings from the Human-Covenant War, or debris from any ships that might have made it into the atmosphere, rather than turning to ineffective materials such as brass against a foe that hopelessly outmatches them. Third, why would the UNSC have large stockpiles of brass lying around?--Supercavitation (talk) 04:06, August 20, 2012 (UTC) But a M16 bullet will tumble and lose accuracy and range, if it hits a twig. Do not doubt me this I have witnessed firsthand. And also, if a Sniper Rifle has no visable effect, then a battle rifle will do nothing . --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 04:47, August 20, 2012 (UTC) About the accuracy, I have the target dimientions, I just read them in Halo Crytuim. 15 meters tall. 10 or 11 meters thick and about just as broad. --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 04:50, August 20, 2012 (UTC) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was referring to the accuracy of the rifle in general, not the 5.56mm round's performance after an impact. Just by way of comparison, the MA5C couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with all of the magazine at 250 meters, whereas, at the same distance, the M16A4 could put all of its rounds into one door, and could probably be more accurate than that.--Supercavitation (talk) 05:12, August 20, 2012 (UTC) Then I'll say that the Didact Made some special bullets. --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 05:19, August 20, 2012 (UTC) what about exploding bullets? --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 05:25, August 20, 2012 (UTC) I'm working without knowlege of any pyco Gravemindized Precursors, All that comes to mind when you people say that is Keyes from Halo CE. Yes he was, AND was PART of the proto-gravemind. I have over 10,000 words devoted to a same universe Halo ME flick that works almost perfect, and it all revolves around Precursors. NEW idea! Copy the ME idea: Fit a ALIM onto the barrel of the MA8. The .416 has enough mass, and with the nuclear battery from the spartan laser powering it, it has enough power. NEW idea! An semi auto Gauss Rifle. Yes? No? Reply tomarow, . --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 06:18, August 20, 2012 (UTC) It would have a slow fire rate, would be extremely heavy, and would still require a different metal for the bullets, but that could work. Also, nuclear batteries are used in devices that require small amounts of power over long periods of time. The Spartan Laser probably just has an extremely advanced normal battery, which would allow it to transfer Megawatts of power in just a few seconds. Edit: Bear in mind that 102mm rockets have warheads capable of penetrating ultra dense Ceramic-Titanium Armor, probably several inches of it, based on modern tanks. Any creature with skin capable of surviving that would have to have thicker armor than that of a similar type, meaning that it would be unable to move. --Supercavitation (talk) 01:44, August 21, 2012 (UTC) Also, you still have that recoil problem.--Supercavitation (talk) 03:18, August 21, 2012 (UTC) The thing with guns in ME, is that ME fields Lower the mass of the round. But, the round that the guns in ME fire are the size "of a grain of sand". So Guns in ME only have problems with recoils since they fire at hyper velocity. The speed of light is: 299,792,458 m/s. The super MAC fires a 3000 ton round at: 119,916,983.2 m/s. That is much much more than 0.04%c I also copy and pasted the speeds. The very first things that I have. --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 02:02, September 1, 2012 (UTC) There's no way natural armour can be bullet-proof, because there's no predators that have the force of a 5.56mm round. On another note, why wouldn't the UNSC use Sangheilli plasma rifles, or any plasma weapon for that matter? Why wouldn't an MA5 with AP rounds work? Let's say the laws of physics have allowed a creature with bulletproof skin. Why wouldn't the UNSC use their man-portable ? Phalanx Actual (talk) 20:23, August 22, 2012 (UTC) Ok, it does not say that the Precursor has bulletproof skin. But, it does say that: "I thought I discerned what might have been cushions or braces for a number of long, multiply jointed arms ending in shackles or gloves designed to grip hands bigger than my own body." Page 119. What came to my mind when reading this, was the arms or legs of a spider, crab, or even the tail of a scorpion. "Seeing the great, ugly head, its compound eyes assuming a new glitter as its consciousness rose from the quantum somnolence of fifty thousand years..." page 327. 50k. This above line was when Borstellar was remembering when the Didact spoke with the captive 10,000 years earlier, after the Forerunners defeated the humans at Charum Hakkor. So 60,000 years of imprisonment. That far out dates the humans discovery of the "ancient starships, clumsy in design but completely automated" the ships that hold the Flood powder. Also: "Humans had discovered how to communicate with the captive-but only for seconds or minutes at a time. The earliest researchers tried to use it as a kind of oracle, asking the answers to vast and difficult questions of physics and even morality- all which drew out confused or useless responses. But finally a set of questions were prepared and asked. They asked about the Flood. And what these humans received as answers traumatized them so thoroughly that many committed suicide rather than continue to live with their knowledge." page 271. "Humans at the height of the Flood's ravages were pushed to an unexcelled brilliance. They found a cure." page 271. My thinking was this: The Captive was a precursor. It knew lots about the Flood. It decided on a whim to tell the humans what needed to be done to stop the Flood. The humans found the cure because the precursor told them it. The precursor of course would know all about the Flood, they created it after all. And Ajax, the Precursors do not have cow hide skin. They have a, in simple terms, a superior version of the Xenomorphs or Aliens silicon based exoskeleton. The thing with the cows, was I was describing a scale of materials of comparable toughness. Just so we can all get back on track: My rifle will be a .416 caliber rifle, with Gauss Tech on the barrel so it can penetrate the carapace of the Precursors. The Precursors skin, to clarify is near the same as the xenomorphs from Aliens (their exoskeleton resisting .223 rounds at ranges exceeding 25 feet). However, their body is mostly covered in large, overlapping bony plates, that, in gameplay terms, are as resistant to normal rifle, pistol, BR, shotgun, sniper rifle, and rockets as a Hunters shield is on Game difficulty: Legendary. --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 23:29, August 30, 2012 (UTC) Remaining concerns: An ALIM wouldn't be automatic. Grammar. Edit:--Supercavitation (talk) 01:23, August 31, 2012 (UTC) Then I guess That I will have to rename it the MA8 Heavy Gauss Rifle or something.--Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 01:19, August 31, 2012 (UTC) That should work. If you want help with the grammar, I would be happy to help.--Supercavitation (talk) 01:23, August 31, 2012 (UTC) I would like that. It is hard, juggling 3 story's on FF.com, school, and this; any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. How would we go about fixing the problems? --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 01:32, August 31, 2012 (UTC) I'll finish my homework, and then, if it's ok with you, I'll go through the article and fix grammar errors that can easily be fixed, and just point out the ones that can't.--Supercavitation (talk) 01:39, August 31, 2012 (UTC) That would be great. The only thing is, I will be offline at 9:30 Central Time zone. --Ny'Kle Vandan (talk) 01:42, August 31, 2012 (UTC) Vote for Namespace For #Article has new and major issues, including the Didact designing a 98%-efficient recoil reduction system. Author has not edited in two months; the article will be in namespace if he wishes to edit it on his return. . #Per Athena.